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- Author - Huguenot Trilogy
1) Escape to Freedom
2) Follow the Wind
3) The Early Years
- From: kenneth joubert
Subject: Re: PIERRE JOUBERT - HUGUENOT REFUGEE
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:04:59 -0700
Hi Kenneth,
Most interested in your Pierre Joubert story. On joining the GSSA I bought
all the back numbers of FAMILIA that were available. Imagine my frustration on finding that I have only Nos 1 and 2 for 1982, will have to wait until the October meeting of the Gen Soc in Durban so that I can hunt through their bound copies.
According to what I have found (not all verified), Pierre JOUBERT was married to Susanne RENE (this could be wrong?) and they had a daughter Elisabeth JOUBERT who married Guillame LORET (1671-1718). Their daughter Elisabeth LORET (born 1713) married on 25 May 1732 Daniel BOCKELENBERG. Their daughter Geertruy BOCKELENBERG (born 4 Jan 1750) married on 28 Feb 1768 Cornelis BOTMA. Cornelis and Geertruy had nine children and are my direct ancestors.
If you take Pierre as No 1, I am on generation no 10. If we sat with paper, pencils and calculators we could probably work out our relationship!
My mother's maiden name was THOMAS, the first English surname on my father's (Dan Bothma) family tree (even his first wife was Afrikaans), I was born in 1942 so these "mixed marriages" have been going on for some time. We went to Kenya in 1948, and my brother and I received a pukka Colonial education in Nairobi, which has been of no use when trying to reasearch such an Afrikaans family without even a basic hold on the language...
My husband says your wife has some very interesting names in her tree i.e. RUSSELL and MARTIN. We have not gone back more than a generation or two with either of these names as my husband's family in the UK do not answer the questions that we ask. Do you belong to the MARTIN FAMILY HISTORY SOCIETY? Most of the info comes from Australia and New Zealand, but we enjoy the Journal anyway.
The USA contact is Charles E MARTIN of Cincinnati,
email - cemartin@iac.net
Happy researching.
Eileen Russell REPLY:
Good to hear from you. If you have a FAX number, I can fax you a copy of the article in the Familia. Had a lot of trouble trying to send a copy by E-Mail.
Some of what you find in 300 years of history is also wrong. The French refugee records in the 1600s show:
Pierre Jaubert 25 yrs of La Motte d'Aigues, Provence, South France fleeing from FRance because of persecution by the Kings men. He escaped with a party of other refugees to Switzerland; then up the Rhine to Holland. A record shows that Pierre Jaubert was married Suzanne Reyne (probably by the Captain) on the boat "Mont Zion" in Rotterdam, Holland harbour in 1688 before the boat was due to sail for South AFrica. Three months later, Pierre Jaubert turns up in Rotterdam - single - and manages to get a berth on the boat for SA "Berg China". It was a terrible voyage - about 1/2 the crew and 1/2 the passengers died en route. When Pierre arrived in SA he was now husband to Isabeau Richard (who started out on the trip as the wife of Malan - who apparently died on board.
The daughter, Elizabeth, who married Lorette, was from the Pierre-Isabeau couple. I think I finally solved the 300 year old mystery when I discovered in the village in Provence that aathere were 2 pierre Jauberts - cousins named after their grandfather. And they both fled the village separately!
I am now busy (successfully, I think) tracing the missing joubert who, probably because of terrible seas around Ireland in 1688, took the boat to New York - which at the time was a Dutch settlement.
Incidently, the names Russell and Martin - were originally attached to the invading force of William the Conqueror in 1066 in England - La Rouselle and St. Martin - I think !
Regards
Ken from Canada.
Kenneth van der Berg Joubert, C-11, Site I-2, RR 2, NANAIMO, BC. Canada V9R 5K2.
Telephone (250) 722-3185 (Fax (250) 722-7197 :
Residential = 1492 Fiddick Crescent, Cedar-by-the-Sea, Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada (off the West Coast of Canada in the Pacific Ocean.)
Re: Re:JOUBERT FAMILY WORLD WIDE
Kenneth Joubert (View posts <http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/authorposts.aspx?uname=Kenneth+Joubert&uid=&uem=01sgdYvHjk1NO4C20YL3XGK3TTvYTe6B&rurl=http%3a%2f%2fboards.ancestry.co.uk%2fsurnames.joubert%2f193.4.1%2fmb.ashx>) Posted: 23 Oct 2004 1:05AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames:
Sorry - if I confused the subject.
I have done extensive detailed work -some years ago - by hiring a "Pro" in Avignon. He copied all the marriage, death and wills for the Luberon hillside for about 100 years (Notary records). They even gave the names of people who provided wedding presents; a description of the gift; etc and details of the dowry provided. I ended up with a detailed list of the family tree. Included were the TWO Pierres - both named after their mutual grandfather and both born in the same year!
So there lies the source of the problem.
Anytime they were listed - like on church records as "Refugees, etc". they were recorded as "Pierre Jaubert, single man 25 years from LAM". So everyone assumed this was the "same man".
I have found the source of the "Bad Man, Pierre Joubert - who marries and dumps his wife" myth. As you know, "a" Pierre Jaubert married Suzanne Reyne (Reine?) who came from the village of "la Roche de Antheron" - which is south of LaMotte below the Luberon hillside - and across the river, Durrance. The record is in Briel, Holland.
Apparently, because they were in a hurry to board their ship, "Mont Zion", in Rotterdam (the same day) the Mayor arranged to have their 3 banns - called in a single day - usually it takes three weeks!
The source of all this info is a report by a Capt. Hinde made in the early 1800s at the Annual meeting of the London Huguenot Society. It was published in their Journal and is used from then on as the "bible" of happenings to Pierre.
I suspect that Pierre's cousin (also Pierre) married Suzanne and they sailed away into history!
Pierre (the "innocent" is NOT recorded on the list of passengers who were to travel on the Berg China. He was included on the list by Botha (in his book iin the 1900s - because he apparently arrived on the BC and no one knew what to do about it! ) However, because they had to solve this "problem" of dumping a wife; they used the name of Suzanne Rescu - who was on the ships list - and died on the trip - to provide the solution.
There is no doubt of the marriage of Isabeau Richarde and Pierre Mallan. I found the actual (very ancient) wedding recording in the records of the nearby village of St. Martin de la Brasque for their wedding in July of 1687 - the year before the fleeing of the village folk.
The records of the Reformed Church at Frankfort-on-Maine show the couple travelling together with many of the people who ended up on the Berg China. I expect that since "half the crew and half the passengers died on the trip out" - Mallan was one of them. That left a young widow with no to support her in a brand new country - and Pierre jumped in to fill the gap.
Many years ago, I was advertising in Genealogy magazines about Pierre Joubert and received a query from New Jersey - about an ancestor, French Huguenot, of 1688 who arrived in New York. At first I was skeptical - but looking at the names of the children in the family as they arrived - matched all of the names of relatives I had encountered in my research.
The only name I am missing so far is the name of the "mother". If it turns out to be Suzanne, you will hear my scream of joy all the way from Canada! The name has "boiled down" in the USA to Jabare, Jubear, and Schubert. Because none of the Joubert clan could read or write. Even in SA, they signed their land records with an X.
Anyhow, it seems to be the answer - better than being a man who dumps his wife! But I will keep an open mind until I can get details on the "death of the wife" in the USA.
Let me have your ideas -= everything helps!
Regards from Canada [23]
- http://www.members.shaw.ca/kvjoubert/author.html
kvjoubert@shaw.ca
kvjoubert@home.com
I was asked by the "Boss" to provide a new members outline on myself and my genealogical interests.
When I left South Africa way back in 1955 to spend a year hitchhiking as a 21 year old around England and most of Europe, I knew very little about my background other than I came from a "mixed marriage" - Father Afrikaans speaking from Lydenburg, Tvl. and mother English speaking from Durban, Natal. (How on earth did that happen in 1955?)
After a wonderful year in Europe, I decided to visit North America since it was so close. Here I developed a career in Banking; met my Canadian wife and had a family; finally went back to school and University; becoming certified as a "registered Clinical Psychologist" with my Masters degree in the mid-70s.
Took my wife to visit my lovely country after 25 years!
It was in my mid-40s that I suddenly had the urge to discover my "roots". A lot of people helped my quest. A wonderful bunch of myths to follow and uncover. I am most heavily involved in my father's line:
(1) JOUBERT/JAUBERT, Huguenot refugee in RSA in Oct. 1688 from Provence, France. Doing some work in my mother's line:
(2) RAMSAY - an emmigrant printer from Edinburgh, Scotland.
(3) My wife's four lines - all crossing the border from the USA to Canada in the early 1900s.
(MARTIN - from Ontario and England - last date 1820; RATLEDGE - from Alberta, Iowa, Ohio, Delaware - last date 1720; JAMES - from Alberta; Nebraska; Iowa; New York - last date 1820; and RUSSELL - from Alberta; Dakota; Ohio - last date 1810).
I am becoming very comfortable working in the mysteries of the USA but still do not have any of her ancestors "over the sea" to the old country yet! All my RSA research has basically been done from Canada. Was extremely frustrated with the Joubert line until I discovered through the Central Archives of France that Pierre Joubert could not write; and that the French name was JAUBERT. Used french speaking researchers down in Provence to delve through the filed contracts in the 1600-1688 period. Lovely scripted documents for marriage agreements and wills. Traced back the family through his parents, and grandparents. (written up in the Familia magazine 1982 #4.)
Last correspondence with France, I was informed that any further documents were lodged in the basement of a chateau nearby and that the owner was being difficult about access. Negotiatiions were taking place to make the rest of the material available. (Probably OK by now).
My secondary quest - beyond the very strong interest in the the family - is to use the material I gather to further my hobby as an historic fiction writer. I have begun a novel based on the research but never get enough time to spend writing. Once I retire - in just over a year - would also like to do a research trip to Southern France for material and finish the book. Also - would like to begin - if it has not already been done - a ONE NAME club - for the Jouberts of RSA. For the records sake - my JOUBERT/JAUBERT Line extends downward from Pierre in 1688 through :Jean b.1695 - Gideon David bc.1722 - Daniel Francois bc. 1760- Pieter b. 1804- Andries Johannes b.1835 - Hendrik van den Berg b.1872 - Hendrik van der Berg b.1902 - and me.
My wife and I live on Vancouver Island on the west coast of Canada in the Pacific Ocean. Our deck looks out onto the beautiful Straits of Georgia and several times a year the Killer Whales come through in their pods. We have about 18 Gulf islands in our living room.
Wonderful place to live in this world !!
Greetings from Canada [25]
- Hi Dennis - s
GENEALOGY- My interest in Genealogy began in about 1973 - at age 40 you began to wonder about your roots!
I first got my own family details; then checked the records in Libraries; and ended up with a whole family of Jouberts - from Pierre Joubert landing in RSA in 1688 - down to many branches with details to about the 1900s. So I need to fill the gap. This was done through the kind help of the Huguenot Museum in Franschhoek, Cape. Then I began to try to locate and trace down the village of La Motte d'Aigues. I finally found it in Provence, France on the Luberon hillsides.
Had difficulty getting any details of Pierre in France thourgh the French Archives. Finally discovered that Pierre could not read or write - so the family name had gone from JAUBERT to JOUBERT. Finally hired a research in the local area who researched the Provencal Archives - now in the Papal Palace in Avignon, France. He copied all the work with local notaries - wedding agreements, land sales, wills and probates - in the name of Jaubert - then had them typed out in Provencal; then translated in Old French; and finally translated in Canada to English. Quite a job!
JOUBERT-JAUBERT BACKGROUND : This allowed us to locate the Jouberts families in the village in 1680. It put us in touch with his great-grandfather, Sebastien Jaubert (married to Audierne Authoard); then his Grandfather, Pierre Jaubert (married to Jehanne Goirand); and finally, his father, Jacques (married to Francoise Rambert) of which only a single child has been discovered - our Pierre Jaubert.
However, he had Uncle David (married to Marguerite Bourgue) with cousins, Pierre (same age), Jacque and Judith; 3 more Aunts - Johanne; Catherine, Magdeleine (married to Andre Barthelmy) and Francoise.
Because of lack of funds, we have been unable to do any further research even though I have the resources available.
In French history, there have been many floods of presecuted Hugoenot refugees from the 1400-1600s. Many of the early groups settled in England, America and other parts of Europe - Protestant parts like Germany, Holland, Belguim and Austria. However, the major flood began when the protection of the Edict of Nantes was cancelled. This resulted in a huge deluge in 1687 and 1688 with, what looks like, 100s of 1000s of refugees. The records of the Church on the Rhine at Maintz show hundreds of pages of people who were given money, food, clothes, shoes and shelter as they fled through Switzerland to the Rhine and down the river the Germany and Holland.(I read the microfilm last year).
The earlier research - like those quoted in the article - had to draw conclusions based on the limited facts they had!
They did not know of Pierre's origins and family in the village - nor did they know about the cousin - also "aged 25 years from the village of La Motte d'Aigues". When they found records like this, they assumed they were the same person!
Yes, there was a "Pierre Joubert" who married Susanne de la Reine from La Roche d'Antheron - a small village just across the Durrance river below his village to the south. They were married in Rotterdam, Holland just before they were to sail on the boat, the "Mont Zion" presumably to RSA. I suspect they sailed - but never got there!
But, our Pierre, arrived in Holland about the same time as his cousin, Pierre. He is recorded as a single man in the records of the Dutch East India Company in Holland. His future wife, Isabeau Richard, came from the same area in France that he came from. She was married (originally) to Pierre Malan (Mallan) from St. Martin de la Brasque - a small village seated side-by-side next door to Pierre's village. They are almost one village!
I have seen the records of the marriage when we visited St. Martin dlB in Luberon in 1998 at the townhall. I have a copy of them. The couple
tranvelled with his Uncle and Aunt Malan when they fled the village, through Switzerland to the Rhine and are together when they received help from the Church at Maintz. The couple are recorded - with the Uncle and Aunt - as passesngedrs on the "Berg China" when it sailed from Holland to RSA in 1687.
The Uncle and Aunt may have changed their minds before sailing on this trecherous voyage because they vanish from the records. Pierre Malan, the first husband, dies on board the boat; and the vulnerable widow married Pierre Jaubert on the boat and became his wife - and our joint ancestors!
I was fascinated when I was contacted some years ago by a researcher in New Jersey, USA. He was trying to trace his ancestor back - He had an early record - A court record from 1688 (the right year) when a man called "Peter the Frenchman" Joubert had some financial problems in Court in New York. He later has furrther records for a "Pierre Jabare" with a large familly of children. It was interesting that all the children were named identical names to this Aunts and Uncles in Provence, France. ( I hope to do further work to either confirm or eliminate this lead as the "Missing Cousin")
Ships records from the Dutch Company show that, because of harrassment from the French Navy for Dutch vessels carrying refugees to RSA, the Captains of Dutch ships had to make a large and difficult trip around England and Ireland into the middle of the Atlantic - and then south to Africa. Many report very heavy winds and seas making the southern trip almost impossible.
When you look at the map, it would perhaps have been easier to go with the wind to New Holland (New York)??
I am also making many assumptions in my story - but so did they will much less information.
Iincidently, the villages of the Luberon Mountain (you can visit the site thorugh the internet at Luberon National Park), are picturesque and
historic. The vineyards are fantastic and the grapes wonderful with their heavy sunshine. We found the people friendly and the food and wine fantastic.
FUTURE : I have plans on forming a Joubert Foundation with a wewbpage on the Internet - to get financial help in researching the Joubert-Jaubert background as far back as possible. This should be running within a year - with maybe a tax deduction credit for donations?
Please write if you need any further info:
Ken on Vancouver Island, in the Pacific ocean off the West coast of Canada.
Kenneth Joubert 1492 Fiddick Crescent,
Nanaimo BC Canada V9X1P5
Telephone : Canda 250 722-3185
Fax: Canada 250 722-7197
E-Mail: kvjoubert@home.com [26]
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